Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam and the Earliest Quranic Manuscripts – Jay Smith

January 14, 2020 - Latest News
Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam and the Earliest Quranic Manuscripts – Jay Smith

With so much of the world focused on radical Islam, which uses and is absolutely dependent on the Qur’an and their prophet Muhammad for their authority, it is important to look at just how authoritative they both are historically. Jay looks at the newest data on Muhammad, Qur’anic manuscript evidence, the 6 earliest manuscripts, and the new Qur’anic folios which are being dated using Carbon 14 dating suggesting Qur’anic Suras are not only older than the Qur’an, but older than Muhammad and Islam as well! Jay compares these with biblical material showing how much more historical evidence we have for our Bible and Jesus Christ, than exists for their Qur’an and Muhammad.

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you this is new material that's just been coming out some of it has only come out in the last year almost every year we're now updating this new material this is absolutely it's been they it's been it's made my job an awful lot easier in 33 years of working with Muslims we never had what we're going to show you this afternoon some of it we introduced last year for those of you how many were here last year when we introduced some of this material on the Quran we're going to go one step further and we're going to show you not only how what we're finding out about Muhammad but what we're finding about how Islam actually began and what Muslims have to contend with this is material that we're using I'm not asking any of you to use this material okay it's very polemical it's very controversial it's very confrontational but you'll see why so let's move right into it and let's ask the question that Muslims are our claying member yesterday we talked about Isis and we noticed that every Muslim whether they are radical whether they are nominal whether they are liberal are dependent on two things every Muslim is dependent on the man in the book the book in the man the book in the manda book in the man the Quran and Muhammad of course beyond that then comes everything else false if you can destroy the book if you can destroy the man you've destroyed Islam as simple as that and I would suggest we are we start from the same paradigm as Christians do we not we're also dependent on a bigger book a better man and that's why it's very important that these questions have been thrown against us much what I'm going to introduce today we're talking about historical criticism redacted criticism source criticism literary criticism all of these have been applied against our Bible and against Jesus Christ and it decimated the church back in 1905 we have now done our homework thanks to the British who have stolen an awful lot of the material to put it into one book one place called the British Museum we can pretty well now support much of the biblical narrative and that's the great thing about it we have passed this test with the Bible and with Jesus Christ is Lomb is just beginning to have that done to it and this is what we're going to introduce today so if the book of the man is the most important thing Muhammad and the Quran what do we know about Muhammad this is the classical account that you've all been told as long as you've been going to school this is what you're told all the time that he was born in 570 received his revelation in 610 for the next 12 years he received the Meccan surahs then he moved to Mecca to Medina in 622 called the Hegira he then received another eight years of actually 10 years of Revelation from 622 to 632 died suddenly in 632 when he dies Abu Bakr takes over then comes Omar after him then comes Earthman and then comes Ali and that's the Russia dune era that is the 40 year period from 624 to 661 that all Muslims want to get back to that's what Isis wants to get back to that's the period known as the golden period of Islam and that's a that's the environment that they would like to take us back now that story I know I'm just giving you the bare skeleton everything that you know from 570 up until 661 you would assume comes from people that were actually living at that time right you would hope that was coming from people that actually lived certainly in that century you would have hope so but here's the problem everything that we know about this period of time does not get written down till this period of time let me just put it on to one grass you know what I'm talking about so everything we know about how Islam began who Muhammad was where he was born all the revelations and all how the Quran was put together does not get written at all during the seventh century doesn't get written down to in the eighth century it starts to get written down with a man named him in his suck in 765 we don't have any of his material we're dependent on this man even his Sean so it's not till 833 that we get the first reference the first biography of modest man named Muhammad or how Islam began that's 200 years after the fact that how does that bother any of you the first time we get any of his sayings the hadith are not written down till this part here al Buhari 870 that's 240 years after the fact does that bother you it should bother all of you because none of these people were living at this time they never were in that same century they never they weren't even in Arabia there they were living in what is today Iran in Iraq hundreds of miles away and hundreds of years distant and then let us see another freak which come after that which would be the commentaries they don't get written down till a bobbity puts them down and that's the that's the 10th century so what we know that's happening in the seventh century doesn't get written down till the ninth in the tenth century two to three hundred years later now we know that Jesus we know pretty much quite a bit about it we know what he did we know what he said because they were written down almost immediately within 40 to 60 years of his death we already have the four Gospels that's the citta of Jesus that would be the biography of Jesus written by Matthew Mark Luke and John that's also the hadith of Jesus the sayings of Jesus which would be the red bat letter part of the Gospels written by Matthew Mark Luke and John we would have the commentaries which would be the letters of Paul written within 15 to 30 years of Christ within 20 years of Christ's death and then you have the Napali which would be the histories of the early church the book of Acts written between 52 and 60 to 80 within 20 to 30 years of Christ's death so everything we know about Jesus historically we can pretty well know that the people that wrote it either were living at that time knew him personally like John and Matthew knew him personally or got it from those who did know him got it from the eyewitnesses can you see the difference when you do a comparison all that we know about the emergence of Christianity who Jesus was what he did and said comes within 50 to 60 years after Christ's death for that of Islam all we know about who Muhammad was how it began what the Quran was and all that comes from two to three hundred years now why haven't we been told that and you need to ask this question because everything you're going to hear about Muhammad just asked one simple question where did you get that story from did it come from the time even the century where he lived all right let's move on the scholars concerns is this why did it take so long to write it down where these people not literate listen by 652 after 10 years of Muhammad's death after 642 sorry within 10 years of Muhammad's death Basra Baghdad Damascus Jerusalem and Cairo were under Arab control you notice I'm not saying Muslim I'm saying Arab so the five great cities of the Levant all came under the Arab control these were literate cities by the time of the mullah comes to power in 685 they moved right across North Africa all the way to Spain in the West to India in the east that whole swathe of land was under the control and has remained under their control except for Spain and Israel it's still under their control today are you telling me that nobody could read or write in that whole swath of land from Spain to India please of course they could read or write so why was this not written down why didn't nobody preserve it this was the greatest profit in the history of mankind if this is the seal of all prophets why did they not write down his story why they did not write down what he said and what he did see that's the questions historians are refusing to ask so we're asking it what's more what we do know about Muhammad what we do know about what is LAN was and where this man lived and what he did if it's all comes to us from the 9th and 10th centuries should we trust it or should we not go back to the seventh century why don't we go back to that time period and ask the questions that they are and the best men in the world the best women in the world are doing just that these are the scholars I'm going to be using today dr. John Wong's bura head of school of orange on African Studies at the University of London he was one that blew open this whole thing in 1977 in 1978 with two books called Quranic studies and sectarian milieu suggested that we've got a real problem with trusting most everything we know about who Muhammad was what the Quran was what are the city called Mecca and of course how it began dr. gerald hunting is the man that I studied at so as there in 1994 when I heard it for the first time I'd already had a master's degree in Islamic studies and I knew nothing about this material it wasn't being taught in America it was only being taught in the university of london and in Cambridge and an Oxford dr. Patricia Corona who is my supervisor when I started my doctorate she reads and writes 15 languages all archaic languages these are lost languages that's why she's so dangerous because she goes back to the original documents reads them in their original form and she never translates any of them because she doesn't want Muslims to read what she found nonetheless she was head of department at Oxford University when she came out with mekin trade in the rise of Islam in 1987 got a death threat for writing that book had to move to Cambridge University that's where I got to know her and then she finally finished up at Princeton University where she just died just before Christmas so we no longer have her around but she has probably done some of the most damaging work on Mecca we're going to introduce her material she's from Denmark dr. Andrew rip and out of Calgary did probably the best work of taking this difficult material and bringing it down to layman's terminology dr. Robert Hyland out of Oxford University he's done the best material of looking and seeing exactly what was being right about these Arabs during the seventh century and so he's the one that has written concerning exactly what other people were saying about these people that were that existed at that time dr. hugh de neville at a university of jerusalem has done the best material on looking at the earliest inscriptions we're going to introduce some of his material later and then the german school dr. Bagheri dr. luening dr. Garrett Wynn dr. Vaughn both Murdoch turd Olli have done the best work in the world on the earliest manuscripts we're going to look at some of their findings of what they found what they're now coming up with the manuscripts that have most of the Quranic manuscripts then there's two books that have just come out in Britain one by dr. MA Tom Holland who is not really he's not an Islamist is he's nothing more than a good storyteller but he's a historian he has three already bestsellers and that's why he decided to take and go beyond Persian fire and Rubicon he decided to go to the next step well what came after the Byzantine Empire what came after the Sassanid Empire it was this Muslim empire and he started in 2006 and for six years he usually writes a book in three years this took him six years because he couldn't find any sources we had to give him all his sources and that's why he came up with this book in 2012 in the shadow of the sort if you want to read one book that actually decimation explains all the spiritual read that book read the first hundred pages and then jump to the last and read the last hundred pages and you get to know anything you need to know now he did a documentary called Islam the untold story he put it on channel 4 and AAG in August of 2012 which summarized his primary themes but he did come to any conclusions he purposely did not want to because he knew it would infuriate the Muslims that documentary has only been shown once channel four would not show it a second time because of all the fury coming from the Muslim world and that's why if you want it I have it right here in my computer you can have it take it home with you and see it watch it it's only an hour and a half long it's summer it summarizes much of what we're going to go through today and then dr. dan Gibson is probably done by the best work on looking at the geography so let's look in some of their material this is what they've found this is what all these scholars put together you've seen all their names this is the conclusions they're coming to first of all the first Arab inscription of the name Muhammad is not till 691 Muhammad died in 632 do you see a problem there why did these people if this is their prophet if this is their greatest prophet why didn't they mention him in any Arab inscription we don't see any reference to his name outside of Arab texts we do have reference to his name not but not within Arab inscriptions the first reference to people call Muslims is not till the 690 well hold on a minute so who were these people that word is that were taken over ba ba ba ba Damascus Jerusalem in Cairo who were moving right across North Africa and moved from Spain in the West who are they well they did call themself things they were actually conquering they call themself the son of since they are known as the hoggar teens in the line of hagar they're known as the Ishmaelites in the line of ishmael they're known as the Margrave because they come from the Maghreb they're known as the Mahajan the people who are in Hitchin who people who are in Exodus like nomadic people these are the names they call themself but they never call themself Muslims yet these were the first Muslims we thought we've been told that's the narrative we've always been given so why didn't they call himself that in their own inscriptions the first reference to Islam is not to the Dome of the rock introduced by of the monarch in 691 at 60 years after Mohammed died and the first reference to a city called Mecca is not till 741 who tu-tu-tu-tu-tu think that through okay near Fatih through we'll go on the first biography of Muhammad with an Islamic source is not till 833 now let's put this all together these are their conclusions how did they come to their conclusions let's go through it and let's remember now remember at the time that we're looking at to begin with in 661 this is when the wide period starts that's how much of the world Islam controlled so they took control the five great cities of the lavond these are cities that were that were sophisticated they had libraries they could they could read and write there there's no reason in the world not to have things written down even as late as 661 dr. gam Gibson when he looked around he noticed when you look at the Quran and take a look at the Quran and look at all the geographical locations in the Quran there are 65 geographical locations listed in the Quran over and over again you find that this prophet interestingly it only mentions that he's the Prophet in Arabic it doesn't give him a name you will find Muhammad's name in Arabic only four times in the Quran but he's known as the Prophet who lives in a city a settlement but it doesn't give the name of the city it doesn't give the name of the settlement except for once and that's in so 48 ayah 2028 so who is this man and where is he live well we do know that he has daily contact with people from other 23 times he keeps on coming in contact with people from odd 24 times he has contact with people from thumb mood 7 times these people from Midian which means he has daily contact with these people from these three different tribes so where are these tribes take a look where they are in the map there way up here mecca's way down here there's 600 miles between them how did he have contact with people there are 600 miles away curious isn't it that's the first problem secondly if he wasn't if he's so far away then what are we going to do with mecca this is the million-dollar question we do read about it in surah 48 ayah 24 I met I said to verse 28 to be verse 24 Sura 48 ayah 20 this is the only reference to mecca in the entire quran yet it's such an important city why because when Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden according that of their up in space that's in Sura 7 they were thrown down according to their traditions to this place called mecca so it would be the first settlement in the history of mankind there is no one earlier than Adam and Eve right it's where adamant it's where Abraham went was living in Sura 21 if you look at Sura 21 he is in Mecca I had no idea Abraham came from Mecca but according to the Quran that's where he lived he goes into the Kaaba and destroys all the idols in the Kaaba they throw him into a fiery pit and then he's saved by an angel the Lord that sounds like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego but what's it doing and what's that say about Mecca that means at least Mecca was in existent in 1900 BC when Abraham was living right and Mecca is the center of trade north south east and west according to all the traditions this is called the trade route theory trade route theory made rock by popular by Montgomery watt now we do know quite a bit about this place where this prophet lived though it doesn't give it a name we do know that it's in a valley that it has a stream going through it it has a parallel valley and has a pillar of salt right outside which this prophet goes by in the morning and comes back in the evening possibly they're obviously referring to the wife of lot who turns to a pillar of salt it has fields trees grass clay loam it has all of trees that's right there should have red flags and that there's a mountains overlooking the Kaaba the problem is Mecca is not in a valley it does not have stream going through it it doesn't have any water it only has one well the zum-zum well cannot even accommodate the caravans that went there it does not have a pillar of salt there are no fields trees grass lay low or all of trees there are no olive trees except for the Mediterranean world 600 miles further north there have never been olive trees in Arabia so you can see there's a problem here because wherever this place is it cannot be Mecca so what do we know about Mecca I've just told you all that so we'll go beyond it you can come back to that those are all the things I just mentioned take a look at a map from the 7th century this is a Byzantine map of the trade routes where is Mecca on that map you notice if it's the center of trade if it's one of the greatest cities in the history of mankind if it's the oldest city in the history of mankind why is it not on any map that's just a Byzantine map from the 7th century take a look at this map this is the trade route again this is look or see where Mecca should be Mecca should be right there it's not on this map either from the 7th century but look at what is at the center of trade we'll come back to that dr. Patricia kroner notices and course she was curious because she looked at this map which is from the 7th century and she noticed that all the trade would have come from India over here and China over here and would have come right up through the Persian Gulf to get over to the Mediterranean world the problem was the sassanids here were warring with the Byzantines here for 200 years they Ward back and forth between the 5th 6th up to the 7th century which shut down the trade going through here it had to be redirected across the Aryan see down to Adan right there and then from Adan it went right across up across the Western Plateau the Western Plateau of Arabia from Aden going up to nothing on sana up to dive down to Mecca according to the traditions back up to youth rib to that book Kaiba and then on up to Gaza now my 10 year old son saw a problem with that let's see if any of you can see a problem those of you last year don't mention it what do you say what problem do you see with that theory right there why wouldn't they unloaded we're in Aden okay Aden why don't they just go up what good man he's as good as my ten-year-old son absolutely it's a no-brainer if you're already on board ship and you've come off the west coast of India why in the world would you take it across the Arabian Sea unloaded at 8:00 in go 1,250 miles over land when you know that a ton of goods for going what only 50 miles by land is the same price as going 1,250 miles by sea that's why we do everything by sea today even today in the 21st century we send everything by ship so why didn't they keep it and go right up the red sea so dr. Patricia Corona reading and writing 15 languages goes back and decided to investigate from the 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th century reading the original documents to see if this was true and guess what she found all the trade was maritime none of it went through Arabia there was no Arab name anywhere on any of the trading documents here on the west coast all the names that she could find came from here Eritrea Africa they were the ones that love to go on boats the Arabs hated boats that's why you don't see any ports on the western class the side of Arabia they were all camel herders they were people that were nomadic they were desert up nomadic people that's why there was no maritime trade with any Arab names so this whole trade route theory suddenly was up in question and then she looked a little more carefully if you notice I don't know if you can tell but when it gets up to tithe here it then goes down off the western plateau to get down to Mecca a thousand meters and then has to go back up a thousand meters to get back up to your rib mecca's not even on the trade route the Arabian existing trade route it's not even on that trade which she noticed why had no one noticed that for 1,400 years no one picked that up she picked it up and wrote a book about it and she just destroyed any notion of any trade route because she just quoted reference after reference she found that the here in stephane which is now today bog da that's the art archaic name for bog that they came down here to Yathrib which is now Medina and they found silver they had silver mines there and they went down to Thai Eve and they talked about going down to the south no reference to any place called Mecca could find any reference to none none at all until 741 741 is the first reference she could find for Mecca it's in it's in Dec apocalypse the pseudo methodius continue Auto Basanti Arabica Muhammad died in 632 can you see the problem that's over a hundred years later obviously there is a problem with Mecca we just don't have any reference to it look at the modern-day Mecca look what they're doing now the fourth largest building tallest building in the world that huge clock tower that is 45 feet across that face of that clock tower they're going to make it Mehcad Mead time they are now transforming Mecca they've designed it very similar to Big Ben and they want to make take Greenwich Mean Time and bring it over to Mecca and meantime mmm tea instead of GMT but take a look what they're doing that's what they plan to do with Mecca they're basically they're cementing over the entire city that's Muhammad's house they've now cemented that over that's Khadijah Muhammad's wife's house they've cemented that over look at all the cranes they're going to make 62 of these skyscrapers why do you think they're cementing everything up they now know what we know there is no history there and what best to hide the history than to cement it all up so that nobody can investigate how old Mecca is but here's the problem if you don't have Mecca in the right place then what are you going to do with the Qibla see the Qibla is the direction of prayer every Muslim knows exactly where to pray every day five times a day doesn't matter where they are in the world they always play towards Mecca am I correct on that the Qibla is sacrosanct every mosque you go into you'll see a mclubbe it's the design is pointing towards Mecca is I was on the airplane there with Malaysian Airlines before I got shot down and as we were flying across the water as you could see on a television screen the Qibla change as we were moving so any Muslim could get up off their seat and do the prayer at any time in the right direction so that's why the Qibla is absolutely important because we do know that the Qibla is always has always been directed towards Mecca since 624 according to the Quran in surah 2 ayah 143 it says very clearly that the Qibla was pointed towards Mecca sinks 624 you want to find where the Qibla is today you can go and get these apps on your computer on your phone that's my hotel room there in Kuala Lumpur and there you can see with the was in my hotel room sir–what tu-134 43 145 gives the direction of Qibla as Mecca now back in 1905 dr. Ferrer vada and dr. Creswell were actually going through that part of the world looking for the oldest mosques they could find and dig it down to the original floor plans they went to the wasit mosque in the croutha mosque which is in today Iraq and they went into the foot mass which is just outside of Egypt in Cairo Cairo in Egypt when they dug down to the original floor plans of both the Wasat in the Kufa mosque they noticed the Qibla was facing straight West it should have been facing south when they went to foot stud they know as it was facing straight east it should have been facing southeast theirs was it there's Kufa there's footstep they were all facing this way they thought in 1905 that they were facing Jerusalem they were wrong they were off by three to five degrees we can't blame them that's pretty close nonetheless why were they facing that direction well dr. dan gibson wanted to find this out he'd been living in the arabian peninsula he'd been there for 20 years his father was an archaeologist his grandfather was an archaeologist so he wanted to find out what can we do with this qibla but he was there learned the language and he moved all over that middle piece and decided to take pictures from space using satellite technology onto the original Qibla because he many of the mosques today have been destroyed and rebuilt many times so he wanted to look to the original floor plans by doing that he needed to find where the original enclosures are you can only do that from space look what he found the Great Mosque in Gwangju in China built 630 look where it's facing its facing Petra not Mecca the who my mom asked in in Jordan it's facing Petra almost completely opposite from Mecca the great mass of Baalbek in Lebanon it's facing Petra not Mecca the Great Mosque of sana now we're in Yemen look at the date 705 Muhammad died in 632 the Qibla was canonized in 624 so now we're a good 70 or 75 years later it's facing Petra not Mecca the Alexa mosque this is interesting because there you have the Alexa Maas and there you have the Dome of the rock the entire citadel including the Dome built in 691 the al-aqsa mosque built in 709 all of them the in Centreville the Dome of the rock and Alexa mosques are all facing Petra and they're still facing Petra today they're not facing Mecca the damascus mosque built in 709 it's facing petra not Mecca the anjaan Mosque in Lebanon in 714 look at the date now it's facing Petra not Mecca the mosque and Umar Vasa in Syria 7:20 now we're almost 100 years later it's facing Petra not Mecca as far away as bombed or finally a mosque in Pakistan is finally facing Mecca in 727 that's the first Maus he could find that finally had the Qibla right but then their very next year he found one in Syria that was neither facing Petra or Mecca they were a little confused there now this is interesting here is the older mosque built in 700 in Amman in Jordan it's facing Petra that's built in 700 look at this mosque here this is built in 740 it's finally facing Mecca what happened between 700 and 740 the new mosque is great the old mosque is incorrect something happened between those years we'll get to that back in 743 then here's another mosque facing back to Petra again so they still not there's still not uniformity now when he got to North Africa the mosque were not facing Petra or Mecca they were all completely confused in North Africa here's one in Tunisia it's facing this direction it's not facing Petra or Mecca the same way here in Spain it's facing here it should be facing those directions and the same way in Tunisia here's another one the Qibla is this way we're not sure yet why they're completely confused in North Africa take a look at where all the kibbles were facing every Qibla uniformly we're facing Petra they weren't off by any degrees didn't matter how far away they were even as far as Gwangju in China they were all facing Petra and he noticed that every mosque up until 725 were facing Petra between 725 and 822 12% were facing Petra fifty percent were facing Mecca thirty eight were FairPoint parallel it was until 822 that all the mosques begin to face Mecca that's 200 years too late now why haven't we been told this you can see this is the secret Muslims don't want us to know can you see the problems we're dealing with here why were they facing Petra there's Petra right up here look and see what it is it's a centre of all the trade it's the center of the Nabataean kingdom the Nabataean Petra is there were the tombs and temples of the Nabataeans were the Nabataeans are the people that give us Arabic the Arabic script comes from the Nabataean script the name Allah is an avid God ilaha illah ha has a wife named a lot whose formal name is a loser now any of you who know exactly what I've just said a lot in a loser and Alma not these are the three goddesses interestingly they're not daughters at all ilat and a loser is the wife of Allah which means Allah has a wife I had no idea I always thought Allah was one Sura 6 ayah 101 says Allah cannot have a consort well then they should have used Allah because I've got the wrong God this is an avid God who has a Nabataean wife which means this is a pagan god a polytheistic God which has nothing to do with the God we see in our Bible can you now see historically we're now destroying Allah today but that's not for this lecture that's for another lecture just to show you what we now know about what we're finding out about the Nabataean era and what we now know about Petra guess where the black stone comes from the black stone that is in the Kaaba today comes from Petra and it's referred to up until the 4th 5th and 6th century it was always the stone that people went to worship no wonder it's in the Kaaba in Mecca take a look Petra is in a valley Petra has a parallel valley Petra has a stream going through it it has fields trees grass clay loam it has olive trees it is near the pillar of salt if there was ever any pillar saw it would be up near Petra Petra has all the items listed above from the Quran Islamic traditions thus could petra be the place they are referring to take a look also where do you think a thumb would in Midian are a thumb would in Midian they're referred to 23 24 and 7 these are the tribes all around Petra but that's 600 miles too far north can you see something's wrong with the Quran it's 600 miles from where it should be so therefore we know nothing about Muhammad until the late 7th century we don't have his biography until the 9th century his city doesn't even refer to until the 8th century thus much of what we know Muhammad is written down hundreds of years later and hundreds of miles away it looks like he is nothing more than a later redaction possibly by of the Malik hole that name you'll see why that's important so the conclusion Islam in the prophet's life as we know it was not derived from the 7th century but revolved over a period of two to three hundred years and then redacted back to the prophet's life and compiled in the 9th century now so what happened this is a what if next year it may be a terribly different what if because we're just getting all this material is now coming in in huge droves so we're updating it all the time this is what we know in 2016 may May of 2016 to make sense of all this we need to go back to Abdulmalik remember the Arabs had now taken over Baba Haddad route Jerusalem in Cairo they have now moved right across North Africa decimated the church there moved all the way from Spain din the West to India in the east that whole swathe of land was under their control but they could not run the cities because they were not they were nomadic people so who ran the cities for them we know very well that the Arabs stayed outside the cities in garrison towns they use their for their cousins their cousins who came from Abraham who were the cousins the Jews and the Christians they were the literate people they were the academics they were the ones that could run cities and they became what they call mollies on mo Ollie's which would be like indentured servants so they'd run this round the cities for 40 years that worked but by the time of the mother comes to power he is the great king he is the son of mud one himself who brings in the mud one that family of the Umayyad Caliphate that starts in 680 he comes to power in 685 he now realizes that everything they're dependent on is from a judeo-christian standpoint because the Jews and the Christians have a prophetic line don't they that's from a line of Isaac's the Arabs don't have that prophetic line but they're in power they have no identity how do you therefore get an identity well you've got to have an air prophet so who do you do what do you do well the first thing you do the first thing you do is to get that identity you start to create your identity and we can see this on the coins go to the British Museum and look at the numismatic sections and you will see that the coins there of the Byzantine coins were taken by the Arabs and they were just copied so here you have the Byzantine Emperor with – his retainer they put the Caliph with – is which I didn't know that Cadis could have images again is is this Islam allow images so this obviously was before imagery was considered to be Hunnam can you see the problem this is not Islamic this can't be Islamic if you have images of your Caleb on the backside the Byzantine cross is repeated they just taken the cross piece off but they keep the Byzantine cross there of then Moloch comes to power and he has his image right there on the coin with the Byzantine cross he then takes that off in 691 after he's been in power for six years he then changes everything now of the Moloch when you know if you know anything about Abdul Malik he is known as the great Arab reformer he is the one that introduces Arabic as the international language he is the one that introduces Arabic on all the coins takes the images off and introduces the Arabic script and take a look and see what's on the coin the shadow there has been no reference to the shot that earlier than this we don't know of any bismillah on any documentation prior to 691 he introduces it on the coins there is no god but God and Muhammad is His Prophet that's where its first introduced on that coin right there in 691 sorry 692 but before that he does something even more spectacular he builds the Dome of the rock butthole and why would he build a Dome of the rock in Jerusalem shouldn't he be build it down in Mecca but he's not in Mecca there is no Mecca we have no reference to Mecca well what about Medina well he's not down there either so where is of the mullick he's way up in Damascus why so far north if he's from Arabia see why are people not asking these questions you need to ask the historical questions so he's up in Damascus but he knows that his identity is in contras distinction is in opposition to the judeo-christian identity his problem are is the Byzantine Empire so what does he do he goes to Jerusalem which is the seat of Christianity the seat of the Byzantine Empire where they have their holiest building which is the Holy Sepulchre right there and he builds his building across the valley and higher up he puts it higher than the Holy Sepulchre across the valley and he has it pointing towards Petra as if to say we are now the new Empire we now have our new prophetic line because what does he do inside the Dome of the rock well if you look at the Dome of the rock today that's not the Dome of the rock that was originally built that has been destroyed and rebuilt 11 times what you're looking at is the facade from 1876 little over 100 years old it's a very new facade to know what's in the Dome of the rock you need to look and you need to go into what they call the inner ambulatory these two circular that's the only original part of the Dome of the rock that still exists today and when you look at those inner ambulatory you need to look at the Arab inscriptions that are up there because that's the Arab inscription that expose everything now if you were to go to any Muslim and ask him why the Dome of the rock is important they'll say it's the third most holy shrine because this is where Mohammed was flown to on the back of the winged horse from mom Medina up to I'm sorry from Mecca up to Jerusalem and then he went up to the seven heavens there ought that the rock the rock he went up to the seven heavens met Allah was told to pray 50 times a day came down to the fifth heaven met Moses and he bounced back and forth between Allah and Moses got the prayers down from 45 to 35 to 15 to 10 down to five prayers once he got five prayers Moses that's enough so he heads on back down to this place and then he flies on back to Medina sorry Mecca so that's known as the menage that's the story the menage which means if this building was built to commemorate that event it should have reference to it right look at all those inscription there's no reference anywhere to any fake place or any event called Mirage there's no reference to Muhammad going up to any heavens or meeting Moses or going on the back of the winged horse the Barack none of that is referred to so it's on those inscriptions surah 4 ayah 171 Oh people of the scripture do not exaggerate your religion Jesus son of Mary was only a Messenger of Allah say not 3 that he should have a son for God does not have a son who is that attacking Jesus and his divinity and his sonship sirup 17 ayah 111 who hath not taken unto himself a son and who have no partner nor hath thee any protecting fred through dependence who is that against Jesus again the inscriptions are all against Jesus Christ and it's on those inscriptions were you first therefore the first reference to Muhammad is the Messenger of God attacking Jesus he's needing begetteth not nor was begotten none comparable unto him Muhammad is the Messenger of God this is where Muhammad is now introduced even before the coins are coined this is a year before the coins are coin he is introduced in the Dome of the rock you picked the biggest structure in the history of that of that time the biggest structure that was ever built you make it bigger than what the Christians have you put it higher up and then you introduced your prophet this is the first time we see Muhammad's name isn't that interesting 60 years after he died no reference to his name from any Arab sources until the Dome of the rock now once you have done that you now pretty much say this is the new prophet this is the Prophet who does not he is not the son of God and he is not the partner of God now can you understand why Muslims the first question they ask us in almost every conversation is God does not have a son and how can Jesus be God listen they've been doing that from the very beginning if this is correct and we're correct on this it looks like the earliest inscriptions how Islam began was an attack against our Lord and his divinity against the Byzantine Empire and against the sonship of Jesus so now he is builds a larger sanctuary than the Arab with the Arab structure he incorporates inscriptions he introduces his faith Islam that's the first time we see the word Islam were introduced he introduces his people the Muslims he introduces his Prophet Mohammed the killer for protocols and this is where you who never has really done a great job he's looked at all the key level protocols from the sufyani period of the Umayyad caliph er up from 661 up until 685 when the six eight when the mud when it's come to power these are the official documents of the chaos and there's no reference on any of these documents about a man named Mohammed there's no reference and any diamonds of people called Muslims or religion called Islam or a book called the Quran yet these are supposedly the first Muslim documents why because they weren't Muslims this was not Islam the bismillah is not even the bismillah we have today and then in 691 when of the Malik's in power almost overnight suddenly Muhammad is introduced as the prophet of God now how come the name Islam and the name Muslim are introduced and it happens overnight and from that on from 691 every kala for protocol include starts with the bismillah but it all begins without the Malik sagen have anybody changed the Paila for protocols we have that we can look at them you can see they have not been changed and the fact is why is it Muslims have never looked investigated this themselves why aren't Muslims since they own the protocols why do you who to Neville from Jerusalem universe they have to go and even find this out fascinating but can you see it all fits with that architectural it all fits with the coins it all fits with the documentary evidence all the evidences point of the Manik who introduces so we introduced Mohammed of course if you're going to introduce a man you need to have a revelation every prophet needs a revelation that's what's missing you also have him pointing towards the wrong place Petra but then in 7:13 Petra is destroyed by an earthquake once Petra is destroyed no longer is God their God no longer that's a sign that God has now left Petra so you've got to choose a new place that's why mecca was then chosen why Mecca because that's where of the mullet comes from that's where his family comes from they come from the Hejaz looks like Mecca could have been a previous pagan a pagan sanctuary and that's why when you take a look at Mecca today it makes no sense whatsoever what they do there why are they one running back and forth between safa and marwah Noire these two hills that they run back and forth seven times it makes no sense why are they throwing stones at three jamaat's why three when you a Muslim that say they would say it's three Devils I don't remember being having three Devils in the Quran there's only one devil suggesting that these pre probably are pagan rituals pre-islamic pagan rituals that's why more needs to be studied on Mecca so you now have a prophet you need a revelation you now have a sanctuary now they need a history and that's why can you now understand why the history is not introduced until 833 the sayings are not introduced until eight seventy of the sahih bukhari is given six hundred thousand of these sayings and he's to look at them and to throw out all the ones that are considered to be fraudulent he does this between 850 and 870 remember a Muhammad died in 632 so for 20 years he wills away whittles away whittles away and he throws out 98% of it and only retains 2% he only retains seven thousand three hundred and ninety-seven from 600,000 he whittles it down to seven thousand three hundred ninety-seven what was his criteria for throwing out 98% and what did he do with that 98 percent wouldn't you like to read it I would like to see what they've thrown away but we're not going to see it they were all destroyed so all we have is Oh body he's the first one then to tell us how the Quran was put together but he's talking about he's telling us a good two hundred years later ninth century is friendly we finally get the book the man the place in this story and in a new religion is formed and growing not between the two twenty-two years like Muslims like to tell us but looks like two to three hundred years what about the Quran you're here now here we get into the really gritty stuff because now we get to the Quran what are going to do with this Quran we've got the man we've got the place yet every prophet has a revelation where was Muhammad's revelation if he has chosen the Prophet he's got to have a revelation but he's been dead for sixty years so you got a problem here so what do you do well what do the Islamic traditions tell us they say it's this is the this is the superior to all of the revelations and I always ask to Muslims for questions whenever I talk about the revelation you can ask the same four questions is this Quran eternal every Muslim will have to say yes my correct on that is this crown sent down was it sent down to a man named Muhammad between 610 and 632 that 22-year period all have to say yes I don't know if any Muslim with a radical number or liberal plasma not the Liberals that would not say yes to that was it complete at the time of Earthmen 20 years after Muhammad's death he is the one that actually compiled it in its final form the one that we use today they have to say yes and is it unchanged in other words the crown we have in our hand today is it the same Quran that key was revealed to Muhammad that was codified by the time of birth month that exists in that eternal tablet in heaven every Muslim will say yes to those four can remember those four words eternal sent down complete unchanged that's all you have to remember I did this in a debate with dr. – abu dali back in 9th in 2014 where we asked this very question there in Toronto and I just asked those four simple questions and he said yes yes yes yes to all them so all I needed asked was a fifth question prove it prove it now you can't prove eternality I don't expect him to prove that you can't prove down whether it was sent to Muhammad you guys we don't know anything about Muhammad or anything came from that time I'm just asking him to prove this last to number three and four I want you to show me one manuscript one manuscript of the Quran from the time of Whitman that is complete and unchanged that's all we're asking that's fing good simple enough isn't it since they are the ones that claim it we don't claim it we would never claim that about our Bible where Bible is not eternal please don't say that sent down no one was not sent down inspired yes but not sent down complete yes we would agree with that when in its original form it was complete unchanged no it has been changed we know where the changes are we even warned the readers where the changes are so we would never make those four claims we would only make one of them okay so this is not our problem this is their problem see how easy it makes I'm making it you ask them these questions put them on the hot seat and ask them to show you one manuscript that is complete and unchanged from the mid 7th century 652 prove it now they do believe that six manuscripts do exist today they would say the six major ones and this is Albahari this is where it goes into that whole reference about how was put together it's in volume 6 how did number 509 and hadeeth number 510 and it says very clearly that Earthman gave Zaida mental one was up sub allows to bed in hadith the for them were to rewrite the Quran and in 650 at the time of movement and then once they had rewritten the Quran they were to send it out to every province now how many provinces were there at that time there were nine provinces basa hog dot Damascus Jerusalem Cairo Alexandria Aden Nishapur inherit those are the nine prophecies that existed at the time of the time of Whitman so they sent nine copies to nine cities in the mid 7th century and then what does it say and all the other fragmentary part copies they were burnt they burned everything else why do you burn manuscripts because they disagreed who – two – that's hard enough anyways but nonetheless we're not going to stick with that let's continue and let's ask about these nine copies they wants to send to Basra bog that Damascus Jerusalem Cairo Alexandra Aidan head up and initially we're talking on about 1400 years ago listen if you want to see how much we have for our New Testament account just come down to the British Library and I'll show you the entire 27 books of the New Testament called the cine Atticus that has been around since the fourth century that's 300 years before what we're talking now right next to it is the Alexandra eNOS that's from the 5th century that's 200 years from what we're talking now if we can come up with 265 either partial or complete manuscripts of our New Testament but before the 6th century certainly the Muslims can come up with one one that's what we're asking we just want one of the nine and see they claim that they do exist the nine that they claim exists are these ones here the Topkapi which is in the Topkapi Museum there in Istanbul in Turkey the summit con which is in Tosca in uzbekistan the Mitel which is in the British Library there in London so we know that one probably well the hosseini manuscript which is in Cairo there in Egypt the Petra paleness which is in the bibliothèque nationale in pocky there in France and then the most exciting the sana manuscript which is just discovered in 1975 in sana there in Yemen those are the six major manuscripts the problem is except for the Petra Poland s and the Mathilde manuscript we have not had access to any of these manuscripts we can we can't touch them we can't do any forensic testing on them we would love to have done so for 30 years I've been we've been asking to try to get close to these mansions and we could not but that change in 2002 two Turkish scholars dr. Eggman Anissa Helou and dr. Todd optical itch finally were given access for five years and from 2002 to 2007 they were able to look at these six management scripts and come up to their conclusions now their conclusions are written right here we have the entire their entire books a thousand pages long this is just the introduction it's all in English so you can all read it all you need to do is read this eighty three pages and weep because this destroys everything we have heard about the Quran now remember these are the two leading authorities in the Muslim world on the Islamic Quranic manuscript they own the Topkapi they are the ones that have the best work they're the only ones that have had access to all six manuscripts for five years and this is their conclusion let's go through what they're saying they're Muslims himself they're from Turkey what kind of Muslims I don't know I'm not going to say they're radical or nominal liberal but they are scholars of the first degree and that's why we have that's why Muslims have to take them seriously because they're their own kind now dr. Ahmed Alhassan who says we have no booth monic massage there is no Muslim most of maine's manuscript there is no Codex from the time of women not at all nor do we have any copies of these Muslims these Muslims date from a later Umayyad period ooh my appeared goes from 661 up into 749 the later whom I appeared means they're all eighth century manuscripts every one of them except for one doctor tile optically jazz much more is the greater scholar of the two he says there have been no seriously scholarly work has been done on them until they did their work these muscles to date from the early to mid eighth-century they are not with monic nor are they copies sent by them he looked at the top copy and he dated the top copy which is the best the most complete of all the manuscripts that exist today he dated it to the mid eight century that's a hundred years after Othman that it only contains though it includes 99% of the Quran so much of it is damaged only 78 percent of it can be read and of the 78 that percent that can be read there are two thousand two hundred and seventy manuscript very intricate e2 manuscript variants that means words or phrases that are different in that manuscript in the Quran we have today now haven't we been told this why is it taken 1,400 years for them to Telesis the summer come man you skip is is the early 8th century it's earlier than the Topkapi they say but it only goes up to so 43 there's 114 surahs more than that they said it is full of grammatical errors that has scribal copyist errors it uses poor Arabic in fact they said it's an embarrassment because it's such a hopeless text obviously whoever wrote it did not know Arabic very well the mile which is in British Library we've already known about it it only goes up to so 43 it is from the early 8th century and it has many variants we've always known this about that never know that's why we knew what they were going to find the whose a manuscript is a much much too late it's what they call a monumental text it is dated by time to go to college the mid eight century dr. France adores dates it to the ninth century because of the size of the text it has variants the Petropolis manuscript which dr. Fontes de ros owns and controls there at the pair in Paris it is an early 8th century manuscript but it is only 26% of the Quran it is not complete and in that 26% it has 93 variants from the Quran that we have today the Sodom manuscript is the most exciting this was discovered in 1975 in 1981 three German scholars GERD print bond both myrrh and Oleg were flown down into dead look at it because they were the only ones that could read it because it has no diacritical marks and has no violations no dots above below the line and as they then took pictures of it they realized that they were reading they're holding a very archaic text because they noticed that it on this side on this side over here they had a script that dated to 705 there's 319 and that yellow market jumps to cero 22 what happened is 0 20 and 21 well so 20 begins over on this side of the page in a completely different script there's about 60 to 70 years between these two pages who – 2 – 2 which means you see an evolution in the manuscript this manuscript right here now I went to see them I went to see Garrett Witt in Germany in 1990 99 and I took a picture of effect simile and this is not that manuscript itself this is just a photo of it and he showed me all these orange marks every time you see an orange March that is a manuscript variant that means a word that is different in that text for the Koran we have today there's over a thousand of these manuscripts in just this text when they looked at under ultraviolet light they notice that there is a script underneath you see the script they're very faint these are all written on parchment on vellum this means animal skin which you can wash off and rewrite over top and wash off and read over top as they looked at it they wanted to separate the two text it guess what they found the lower text is seventh century probably the last two decades of the seventh century the upper texts in the lower text don't agree I love that which means between the land of the seventh century in the early 8th century the Quran was already changing now dr. Aaron's wife Elizabeth Prynne has just now come out of book she is now looking at all the differences we're waiting for it to be published in English it's already published in German you can read in tell us what she says because she is now exposing this paalam cest and showing that we have a completely different Quran underneath from what we have on top now let's get to the corrections and here's where it really gets juicy this is what I introduced back in 2014 to dr. Shelby Dali I said so vitally have you looked and seen the correction she said there are no Corrections I said yes there are doctor Dan Brubaker did his doctoral thesis looking at corrections that's all he wanted to look at was to see if there are any manuscript variants just one or two possibly 15 was what he was hoping to find he looked at six of these six manuscripts that we've looked at plus four others that come later so he looked at ten manuscripts just to look for Corrections guess what he found hundreds upon hundreds of insertions words that are put above the line above the line see these words that are added at a later date he found hundreds of erasers where they just erased words why were they erased em of course could they're changing the text he found these erasers that were all written there they erased an entire line and then they wrote in fact two lines and they wrote overtop of it here you can see a word that has been now been written over top of the completely different word sometimes it's written within in completely different color then he found these over writings without erasers they didn't bow to erase it they just wrote over top so we can read both the lower in the upper text he found tapings which he thought were because of damage but when he looked on the backside there was no damage so obviously they're trying to hide something there look at the tapings there's a taping there's a taping there's a taping there's a taping look at all these tapings wouldn't you love to know what's underneath that tape to see what they're trying to hide and then you found these coverings these selective coverings those are covering those are covering there's a covering those are covering look at that it's own so many coverage okay you can't even understand what's being said obviously they're trying to change the TechEd sometimes they had coverings with just one or two letters written over top like the cuff here here's I could covering with another word this one over top there's a covering there's a company with new words written over top they he found by the time he did his finish his doctorate in 2014 800 of these Corrections not just 15 800 and in every case every one of the Corrections was consonantal which means it changes the whole meaning of the word these were not violations these are not dogger out of like Muslims try to say today he purposely did not include any dogger olives in them they sure had nothing to do with violation because there were no vowels there this Bhalla ation was only introduced in the ninth century in the 10th century which means that in every case they were changing the meaning of the text and what was most disturbing was that these Corrections continued up until the ninth century for 200 years they were correcting it 200 years after Earthman standardizing the text Western scholars now are concluding that the earliest muscles begin to appear in the 8th century Muslim scholars like akmaluddin and Alta College now conclude that the earliest muscles begin to appear in the 8th century even Islamic awareness the most prodigious the largest website on manuscript Islamic Quranic manuscript has now finally admitted because of the work of these two Muslim scholars that the earliest manuscripts do not appear into the late 7th and early 8th century the latest research shows that even these Muslims have seven forms of correction dating up until the 9th subject therefore since the Muslims cannot prove that there are any complete manuscripts on the time of Whitman I would suggest that the Quran is not eternal I would suggest that it was not sent down it was not complete in 650 it was not the same it has been changed therefore who is Muhammad and what was his purpose I said this in the debate with dr. Berube dotty and he was upset when I said that he said I hope you're saying that tongue-in-cheek I said no we're not 2014 we laid down the gauntlet you cannot find one manuscript from the same century as Muhammad if the only manuscripts you can find the six that you do have only begin to appear in the 8th century 60 to 100 years later if not one of them agrees with each other if not one of them is complete and not one of them agrees for the Quran you have today then where and when did you get your Quran now he had 35 minutes to rebut me he spent 19 minutes I kid you not 19 minutes talking about the miracle of the number 19 if you look at these set of verses you look at these set of verses you get 90 with these set of letters with these set of letters you get 90 with these verses and these were 1999 19 minutes wasting our time I finally got up and I said what verses are you talking about every one of these manuscripts that I showed him not one of them had verses in him verses were not created until the 9th and 10th century so what verses are you referring to and what manuscript are you referring to he finally had to admit which manuscript he was talking about anybody know anybody want to guess when was the Quran finally canonized 1924 at al-azhar university less than a hundred years ago in Cairo the text there using the day only comes from 1924 I turned to Shabbir Ali I said you know Prince Philip is older than your Quran and makes exactly with the truth the Quran they're used today is less than a hundred years old which means who is Muhammad and what is his purpose we could have seen that we don't even have any reference to Muhammad until 691 we have no biography for him until 833 we have no sayings of his until 870 we don't even know where his city is until 741 with all this coming together can you understand now why we're asking these questions and why no Muslim will debate me on this anymore they refuse to debate me I lie next month I'll be debating in Grand Rapids with a Turkish I don't think he knows he's not seen my video what happened there in the Toronto but we'll be debating this next month there in Grand Rapids now let's go to the Quranic folios this just came out in July last year they found two fragments two pages of a Koran that were found in the Birmingham library in a folio a manuscript there that didn't belong dr. Abdel Fedeli notice stood and so she took it down to Oxford University labs to be tested with using carbon dating 14 and they looked up dates and they found that the days were 568 to 645 now that went all over the world BBC put it front headline news it was there July 22nd and July 23rd at the top of the news on their website also on their newspapers not I mean sorry in their television and dr. David Thomas was brought out he was he's with in Birmingham and he said the writer of this manager could well have known the Prophet Mohammed he would have seen him probably he would maybe have heard him preach he may have known him personally and that really is quite a thought to conjure up any problem with this 6 s 568 Mohammed was by born in 572 645 Muhammad died in 632 any of you see a problem with those dates now why do you say is it such a huge stretch well that's because carbon dating is very inexact so it's a 77 year stretch of probability of 95 percent probability it could be 568 it could be 645 but from what I've said tonight or this afternoon can you see a problem with that lady's date when was the crown written down 652 right under oath Minh so how can you have a Quran that predates with money just say nothing of the fact that if it's 650 568 it predates Muhammad as well they hadn't bothered to look at the dates carefully enough but didn't stop there see that's not the only manuscript we have when you look at carbon dating it tells you the tag that the animal was slaughtered and that the carbon-14 decay of nitrogen-14 begins to form that's all you do you'll be able to you're able to look at it but the birmingham folios when you look at it you will notice that includes Sura 18 through 19 in Sura 20 the two folios that were excuse me we're looking at that are dated then when you look at those references you will see that sir 18 is about the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus this is not quranic this is actually borrowed from other material that comes from the Gregory of Tours and there's a Syriac version of it by king by James of sarek in 521 so this was around from the 6th century Asura 19 comes as Syriac work from the protoevangelium of james and gospel of Sudama that matthew from the 3rd century and of course the story of moses sarah 20 is exactly straight out of our Bible so all of these predate the Quran do they not these are nothing more than borrowed stories are you starting to see where we're going with this what was interesting is they then started looking at manuscripts from sana they wanted to look at some of the dates on them take a look at all the multiplicity of dates but what was most damaging is when they started using it and other labs they went to Lyon Lab they went to Kiel lab they went to the Arizona lab the Arizona lab in there and the Oxford Adar consider be the best in the world and look at the dates they found on those manuscripts 388 to 535 that's him before Mohammed was born 443 to 599 mom Rizal was less than 20 years old when that had the latest date 4:30 to 6:00 11:00 443 to 599 these are way B of your Mohammed these are way before the Quran because the Quran was only introduced in 610 according to the Islamic traditions finalized in 652 or 632 excuse me see these go back to the 5th sentry wood these have yet to be published by the way Muslims do not know about this you're getting to learn something before the Muslims know because they're being very careful about publishing this because this is going to cause huge anger across the Muslim world what does that suggest and what are these documents I would suggest that these are the very documents the Quran borrowed from when you look at the Quran a good 70% of the Quran is borrowed from other sources mainly Jewish apocryphal writings and Christian Syriac sectarian writings I'm dr. Guerra dr. Vaughn both Ansari dr. ruling out of Germany noticed that much of the poetry in the Quran the beautiful poetry that's in the Quran he was able to trace every one of those poetry's stroke by stroke pre-islamic Christian hymns written in the fifth and sixth century interposed that into Arabic almost exactly lying for line the same Muslims claim that this is the miracle of the Quran because how could a man who could not read or write write such beautiful poetry I would suggest that they should give credit to the Christians that wrote it and have nothing to do with Mahmud so you can see what we're coming across Abraham in Mecca 0:21 that comes to the mission of raba Cain enables here a five that comes to the target of John Brennan's ayah these are second century apocryphal accounts the story of Queen of Sheba and Sarah 21 comes to the second target of Esther that is again a second century these are all long before take a look at all these stories in the Quran every one of these we can print find antecedents for using source criticism conclusion it looks like these are pre-islamic priya mohammed and pre quranic be careful muslims don't value about that because we're now going to show you exactly where the quran comes from it's nothing more than borrowed material so let's conclude why are there no muslim sources for two hundred years why do the claims they make not fit the historical record why are the geographical references so few in confusing why do they all seem to be much further north why are there so many references of vegetation which wouldn't exist in mecca why is Mecca not mentioned until 741 why is it not on the trade route why are all the kill was facing Petra for the first hundred years and then confused for the next hundred don't even gets canonized until eight twenty to two hundred years too late what is of the Malik's role in all of this and does a nation Islam really begin with him about Mohammed you can read that conclusion like review it looks like we've got the wrong man in the wrong place doing the wrong thing in the wrong time yet when we get to Jesus we know where he was born we know where he grew up we know where he died we know what he did we know from eyewitness accounts we know from hostile accounts we know if that when they were written which means we have the right man at the right place doing the right thing at the right time oh I love it can you see how easy this is in a public context now can you see why Muslims will not debate us on this because we can have them coming and going using the same criteria that we're asking of the Quran we ask of the Bible the same criteria we ask of Jesus Christ we ask of Muhammad and in every case Jesus comes out on top now we're not surprised by that in every case the Bible proves to be correct we're not surprised by that what we have not done is to apply the same text the same criteria the same criticism against the Quran of Muhammad now look what we're finding and this has all been around for only two years I've been working with Islam for 33 years I've never had it this easy and yet notice everything except what I've said about Jesus Christ today notice that everything I have introduced today is from a neutral perspective anybody can say what I've just said this is not a Christian polemic this is a historical polemic which is as neutral as you can get when I've introduced us in London the people that come and shake my hand usually are atheists and humanists and in what they say finally we found a Christian that doesn't want to tell us this testimony you're finally speaking our language we don't care Dilys what about what God has done for you we were asking a much more simple question is it true is the man you're talking about living in the right place at the right time doing the right thing that's all we're asking these are historical questions and we've never bothered to answer these questions and we're not only answering these questions we're asking the very same thing of the Muslims we could do that with the bhagavad-gita we could do that with the bonus shot we could do it with any religious piece of book including the Book of Mormon and yes the grunts Sahib we have to do with every religious book the Bible is the only one that has passed every that's why I love what I'm doing makes my job so much easier but I hope this encourages you I'm not asking you to do this all right this is not for you to do this is for those of us who are debating it who are the polemicists now remember I said we don't believe that our Bible is eternal we would not make the same claims about the Bible that they do about the Quran but see the Bible is not the only word of God that we have is it John 1:1 in the beginning was the word the Word was with God and the Word was ha fales locust and he took on flesh so he is the word of God is he not is Jesus eternal yes he is was Jesus sent down yes he was is he complete yes he is has he changed no he hasn't so the very fourth things the Muslims have to say yes to about their word of God we can say about our word of God we can bring them home folks everything they want we've already got let's bring them home because we can say yes to everyone we have what they're looking for and his name is Jesus oh I love this that's why it makes it so much easier because we can then introduce the gospel even in the same critique you

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